So last Monday, there was supposed to be a huge walkout/boycott. If you supported immigration, you didn’t go to work, and you didn’t buy anything. Most people understood the point of the boycott was to show the positive economic impact immigrants have. Newscasters warned you’d see major disruptions to your daily routine. Well, I’m in Orange County, which has many immigrants, legal and illegal, and I noticed no changes. For my friends who live in LA County and work in Orange, or vice versa, they did notice one drastic change they generally described thusly:
OMG did you see the traffic today? It was awesome! My commute was so short!!!
When they started to think about what it would be like without immigrants, it was a bit more positive than before. And one of my friends is an immigrant (legal, of course). He just hates his commute.
Now, there may be some confusion about the root cause. By the end of the week, people started observing a few other things:
I’ve no doubt that the boycott lowered traffic significantly, but it was probably boosted by the high gas prices rekindling commuters’ romance with public transportation.
Like most things, when it comes to immigration, I’m a very practical guy. I am sure that a population of low wage workers benefits us as a nation. It means that American companies can lower costs to compete with foreign companies, and American consumers can buy things cheaper. Here’s my take on the issues:
I know that somewhere there is a formula, perhaps some min/max calculus problem, that determines the range of low-wage illegals that benefit us. Having over a certain number will be a burden, but so will having less than a certain number. It probably needs to take into account population density, unemployment, inflation, the trade deficit, and a few other factors. But I have yet to see any scientific analysis of this problem, and I’d really like to.
Good luck on getting unbiased research results: this issue is so politicized that there is no way for honest research to be reported. The numbers coming out of the various studies are twisted, ‘spun’ and used to the advantage of either the pro- or anti-immigrant lobbies. Many people in power can make use of this tool, so don’t expect the lies to stop anytime soon.
I too, did not notice any workplace changes (and I missed the freeway changes because I was on the train). However, the cleaning ladies at our San Diego office did not show up because the Mexicans were having a semi-violent protest on their side of the border, and it effectively shut down traffic between our countries. The cleaning ladies live in Mexico and were stuck there (sic) for the day.
Personally, I think we lost the high ground and the ability to tell them to ‘just go home’ when we first started employing them at lower wages than their American non-high-school-graduate counterparts. Once we took advantage of the first laborer, due to our ability to rat them out and have them deported immediately, the dice were cast on our symbiotic/parasitic relationship. Except that a parasite does not benefit the host. In this case, the immigrant labor force is a benefit to the economy (the study data that I’ve seen places the benefit wayyyyy ahead of the cost in schooling and emergency room care; welfare costs are almost negligible as you suspected).
Remember that a mango is 48.00 USD in Japan, and a good steak is close to 70.00 USD. That’s because the Japanese peasant and cattle worker gets paid a decent wage, and passes these costs to the consumer. This could be the future of the US economy: if you don’t like paying $3 a gallon for gas, you’re not going to like paying $2.50 for an apple or $2.00 for an orange.
Personally, the ONLY thing I noticed was a bunch of Mexicans hanging out in front of the home depot near my office. Yep, that was new, starting last Monday. Of all the days to start hanging out there, these idiots chose that one. This is kind of new in this area, so they made it clear what was happening with what looked like a refrigerator box that they had propped up against some bushes with a list scrawled on it explaining what services they had to offer. Blew my mind. They were there for most of the week, then someone got tired of it and gave them the boot I am guessing, as they were making a mess of the nicely landscaped entry area that they chose to take over.
My take on the immigration issue is that it isn’t an immigration issue at all, it is an ILLEGAL immigration issue. Keep in mind, I have a green card wife, so I have a bit of knowledge on the challenges for immigrants to this country. It is not nice. They are treated in a way that can only be explained by a desire to weed out those that are not really committed to being here. I was actually stunned by what they put them through, but honestly, I think it makes sense. We no longer need all the sick and poor that the rest of the world wants to get rid of. We are past that. We now need their best and brightest, who are willing to be part of this country, not just abuse it and take advantage of the system (we got plenty of those people already). Again though, the real issue to me is when people come here illegally, and then act like it is some god given right. Guess what, it isn’t. Breaking the law is breaking the law. It doesn’t matter if it is in our economies best interest. If we want to take advantage of these people, we need to put together a set of laws that allows them to be here legally. Of course, their competitiveness in the work place will go down quite a bit when they are paid a fair salary, with all the benefits that one could expect. If the price of fruit goes up, fine by me, cuz us fat guys don’t eat all that much fruit anyways! If I can no longer get someone to clean my house or take care of my yard for $3/hour, I can live with that.
As a disclaimer, I should mention that I have recently started a business with a buddy to build robots to do these jobs, and frankly, the ILLEGAL immigrants are by far the main reason that it is just a side thing, and not my main 9-5 job. Nobody is going to spend a ton of money for a housecleaning robot that can clean your bathroom and kitchen, when they can pay someone to do it at less than minimum wage.
One of the departments at my jobsite was shut down becuase of the lack of labor we had that day.
Guess what.
Everyone who didn’t show that day was told they were fired. They promply showed up that night after they got the news and begged for their jobs back.
I’m the last person to defend these criminals, but your tax evaluation isn’t quite complete. There are other sides to the story. For example, ALL the immigrants at my jobsite work under a false SSN. This means taxes are taken from their take-home pay before they receive it. HOWEVER, THEY CAN NOT CLAIM DURING INCOME TAX REFUND TIME. Think about this and try to figure how much free money the government gets by turning a blind eye to this.
Also many people complain of all the money immigrants send home to their families in Mexico, but few understand that this money only makes it’s way back to the states one way or another. Mexico is overrun with American companies such as Mcdonalds and Walmart. Get it? They spend it there but it still benefits us.
I only know these things by working with them and I have more examples but I can only defend CRIMINALS for so long. Yes I want to make that clear right now. Nothing upsets me more than see these bastards in the streets waving foreign flags. It’s the same thing on their cars around here. (I think: If you’re so damn proud of you’re homeland then why are you here?)
Maybe if I saw some more US flags among those rioters, I’d be more sympathetic.
All interesting thoughts, I knew this would spark discussion.
As Bladerunner said, I probably use their house cleaning and gardening services, and have been known to eat fruits and vegetables on an almost monthly basis. So I know I can’t claim innocence, and don’t care to.
ZBalance, your sentiment about the flags is shared out here, by the organizers of the rallies. The first rally showed lots of foreign flags, but when they were organizing the second one they made it very clear: only American flags. They want the message to be that these are people who want to be in America. I also caught Carlos Mencia was making fun of people who complained they weren’t being treated “like Americans”, while they stood in front of a Mexican flag. Frankly, I think legal immigrants can wave whatever flag they want – they earned it by jumping through our hoops, as MasterChief said. The illegals should be keeping as low a profile as possible. And out here, I think most do.
Perhaps naively, I hadn’t realized they could use fake SSNs without repercussion, but I guess the gov’t doesn’t care if it gets free money. You’d think all that checking could be automated. Let me reprhase that – as a computer scientist, I KNOW that can be automated.
And fake driver’s licenses must be even easier to obtain (but probably harder to get one that’d fool a cop).
One thing that does piss me off is that illegals fund a lot of identity theft. A buddy of mine at work was royally screwed by an illegal buying his identity from thieves.
MasterChief, if you can make a sexy robot that wears a French maid’s uniform, you’ll be able to name your price. Just team up with the folks at Real Doll 🙂 Heck, it won’t even have to clean!
Wait, wait!! Did someone say that I can have an illegal *steal* my identity and pay taxes on my behalf?? If I’m not mistaken, I can use the illegal’s paltry salary and exorbitant tax deductions in my own return and get lots of $$$ back!! I hope I’m not missing a crucial piece of the puzzle here….
As for paying high prices for produce (and not minding it), count me out. Because of my personal health problems, I have to eat lots of veggies and fruit and avoid sugars and carbohydrates. It is in my best interest, nay, it is life-essential that illegals stay in this country and allow me to purchase cheap produce.
The unemployment rate is very low and no one should be going after the jobs that the illegals take. So why the big fuss?? It’s because some power monger can get mileage out of this non-issue. You’re being used if you feel outraged by the illegal immigrant’s cheap labor. Dollar for dollar once the bottom line is calculated, they benefit the economy. I’d go after the illegal Canadian immigrants; THEY are the ones that are more likely to take my high-education, high-paying job. Let’s finally kick William Shatner, Michael J. Fox and Dan Akroyd(sic) out of the country.
As an appeasement, please kick out all of the Mexican-flag-waving protesters too. They really did not help their cause.
You make a good point about someone stealing your identity and then using the income to claim free tax returns. Unfortunatly, the system is so UN-automated, that they usually end up using SSNs from dead people. At least that’s what they say (brag) to me in horribly broken english.
(You have no idea how many questions some of these guys answer with a “yes”, as if they understand you.)
Like:
Are you gay?
“yes”
What’s your favorite color?
“Yes”
Do you want me to report you to immigration?
“Yes”
I know it’s wrong, but I get bored at work…
Well, nobody like appearing negative.
I also heard that a lot of identity theft is from the dead, I guess they’re the lucky ones. Since my company lost a couple laptops full of financial info (yes, PERSONAL financial info on employees), they bought us one of those credit guard services from Experian. I guess that helps a little, but it’s still on you to keep an eye on it.